Burg: Here we are again, another episode of Low Key Trash. You are here with Burg.
Jay: Your boy Jay.
Burg: And today we have a very, very, very special guest with us, the man, the myth, the legend, Joey Mars, the Joey Mars, live from the tip. We are happy to have you here. Growing up in P town we've always seen your art all over the place. Obviously, one of the biggest places most recently is Shop Therapy.
Joey Mars: Pretty proud of that. That was quite a production. It's 30, 33 feet wide by 15 feet high, 3m laminate, got the cranes in and we've got Ronnie supporting it and making it happen. You've got to have people that are willing to make it happen like that, invest in the project. It actually came together pretty quick in the end because with these collages, what I was doing, I was taking a lot of my drawings and paintings, chopping them up and Photoshopping them and running them through different filters where I was really breaking it down to very basic six colors and stuff. So when I went up in the vector formats, use an illustrator, it went up really good. And then vector pixelates different than like a JPEG where you would get those squares that look like blurred out cop pictures or something.
The pixelization on that was a little almost like stained glass and I knew that to view it you have to be across the street because of how high it is. So I knew I would have that 30 feet or so to sort of work with and let the eyes blend. And I just started patching these characters together and I loved all the abstract stuff that I worked with. And then he was just, he just ran with it because of my other murals. He wasn't able to really talk with, because I didn't kind of just painted crazy shit and threw it up there, where when he had worked with Bob Gosoy on those original murals in the 80s, those were all Ronnie stories that he gave to Bob. And then Bob translated them into classic stories using people's faces that were part of the Shop Therapy crew. So Ronnie could always go out on the street and talk to everybody about it.
Burg: That's so dope though. That whole concept actually is like unmatched.
Joey Mars: It was fun. Yeah, these characters, I mean, there is a lot going on there in these things. They all have different layers to them. There is a lot of psychedelics surrealism going on, an alien UFO and some sort of surreal poetry up top. What's amazing is some of these drawings start out, they are not more than a couple inches high and all of a sudden they become like a six foot character.
Burg: If you didn't know who you were, like walking on the street, you would think this was put together by a couple of different people.
Joey Mars: There are some different vibes going on in their eye. When it first went up, I was going, "That's like some billboard on sunset strip or something". It just had a real LA vibe to me, you know, real, almost futuristic vibe and then... But you’ve got Ronnie with the day of the dead stuff and then you just have these different characters and some of them are in classic literature borrows. Like that green guy, he is wearing like a Hendrix jacket. He has got a skeleton for a body and you've got these different digital things going on and Ronnie over there, he is part computer part human, spaceships flying out of his head.
Burg: That's dope though.
Joey Mars: On top it says mushroom pie orange cat sky. That's just some poetry that I play around with playing around with, playing around words and stuff.
Burg: Okay. Okay. So you dabble into other stuff too.
Joey Mars: Yeah, I do some... I like writing. I like poetry. When I write, a lot of times I do sort of write in that sort of a Doctor Seuss sort of flow where the rhyme is driving the next word to a certain degree. Sometimes it's great to have that extra push to find that word and maybe it wasn't even there where you were going, but it rhymes so go. You know, it's works.
Burg: It's like rapping. It's like the same way.
Joey Mars: Very much so. I love it in that you have a group of words and just keep rearranging the words and so you get the different meanings.
Joey Mars: This was just a great project. It was nice because we really rehab the front of Shop Therapy at the same time. All that upper woodwork was done over and repainted. The bottom was repainted. So it was a giant facelift.
Burg: That's a lot of space. That alone is a lot of space in town, you know.
Joey Mars: It really is. It's one of the bigger outdoor art spots in town. I think you can just sit over there. You know, Cuffy's is great. They laid those rocking chairs out there. You can sit there and rock away.
Burg: And you know people do that all day.
Joey Mars: Yeah.
Burg: You could spend all day looking at that.
Joey Mars: It's fun to see. I've been getting some good feedback from people that come down to see it. And even some really good feedback from some of the artists in town, some people that I really respect where they are coming from. You know, really like some of the things that went on and what's great is it still horrifies half the people.
Burg: I mean, yeah, but it looks great though. I mean, looking at this, this is almost I guess, I want to say like culmination of your whole passion mixed with the cape, mixed with what you've learned.
Joey Mars: I would say yeah. It's a real... These characters came out of a series I was doing and so there was a lot of drawing in them. And then it was also, there is a lot of patchwork and I was trying to... It's probably the closest I've come to sort of almost using like a style that I've sort of learned from studying Basquiat's work where the color, you are just patching color. You just put color anywhere you want and then you find a way to make it happen and you just lay stuff in and so as it's on that level where... And then working in Photoshop, I was taking a lot of my own drawings, paintings, taking a chunk of a painting, blowing it up big maybe and then cop in some eyes off of photos, realistic eyes, run them through filters, almost giving them like a Warhol treatment, really breaking them down to real graphic and then layer them on. Like you see, like that woman, day of the dead. That's like some skull I took out of an anatomy book.
I had been doing that with my own paintings for a little while where I was cutting up... Let's say a painting on sale. It sits around the studio long enough. There were like three on the floor one day and they looked really great together, nothing that I really loved singularly, but the three. So I started cutting stuff up. All of a sudden I had three, four sets of eyes, three, four sets of lips, all these ears and hands and I just started moving stuff around and created these new characters and they happened so fast. I love the fast element and you just get that energy, you know, you just get that. So I was just doing this, all this Doctor Frankenstein
Burg: That's basically what that is.
Joey Mars: And that's what I like, the shock. It's that shock.
Burg: Yeah, the shock factor.
Joey Mars: It's that release of energy, whatever that is. You know what I mean? Free drugs, whatever it is, bang. And that's what keeps you going, when you get that next shock. It could be 27 different colors in there. The same way like a kid might take black and green and all of a sudden you are like...
Burg: Go in.
Joey Mars: It works. It just, it works. It has an energy that can speak to you. And you just keep pushing it around to find something.
Burg: That's interesting. How did you end up in Provincetown?
Joey Mars: A friend of mine, Chuck White, you guys know Chucky.
Joey Mars: Chucky was a Quincy kid, so he came down to Cape every summer.
Burg: Oh, no wonder he talks like that.
Joey Mars: So he used to work with Donnie, the tee-shirt guy, New York store, Donnie. And then one year Donnie had, where the Dune Tours is on Standish, that store was for rent. Chucky was working there. He had two friends that were working at Diamond Comic Books. So everybody had giant comic book collections. And then they came to me and we all just sort of fed the store with our own comic books and then each one of us would sort of live in the store for a few days taking care of it. That was my introduction to Provincetown. That was a summer of...
Burg: Living in a store.
Joey Mars: Living in it in the 90s.
Burg: You would be blessed to get that. You would be blessed to get that option these days.
Joey Mars: Yeah, it was phenomenal. caught you pulled out and it was just, you know, it was the 90s. It was late 80s, early 90s. So the underground music scene of that rock and roll sort of grunge thing was building, just work hard all day and then you just go out in the Dunes at night and have fun.
Burg: That's cool because that seems like everybody who was around here in that time seems like really close.
Joey Mars: It was a good time. Yeah, it was a fun time. There was a big Boston connection, you know, Chucky White was a big time Boston rock promoter. He was a musician himself really. He was on MTV in the early 80s. You guys see like he was like 18, 19.
Burg: What the heck?
Joey Mars: yeah, with his band, Yeah. He won like some sort of basement tapes. So he has always been at it. And then at some point he more crossed into promoting shows. I met him through a friend of mine when I was going to art school and I just started doing some work for a couple of his bands. And then as he started getting promotion gigs, like on Lansdowne Street and stuff, I started getting some poster work from that. And then his friend that he has sort of been mentored by David Bieber who was promotion director at BCN and promotion director at FNX after that started throwing us some gigs and some promotion money to do stuff. And that's just kind of how we all sort of leapfrogged up. When one person went through the door, he sort of left the door open for the rest of the friends to come in and we were painting murals and clubs and yeah, it was a good time. I was not even in the Boston scene. I was out in Wooster at Wooster artists group, which was a nonprofit at 10000 square feet of warehouse space, 10 studios, performing art studios. We brought in a lot of major performance, our jazz, all sorts of stuff. [Inaudible 10:07] Fugazi played there, Dinosaur Junior. This is my living room. That was pretty cool. When the Mighty Mighty Bosstones are playing in your living room…
Burg: Yeah, that's... That is...
Joey Mars: There are 300, 400 kids bouncing.
Burg: That's some classic Boston. That's classic right there.
Joey Mars: It was good. Yeah. It was an amazing place that I fell into. This guy, Richard Gulas and a bunch of other people that kind of came from Providence scene, you know, because Providence has a great scene, the art scene because they’ve got the big arts schools. Wooster kind of had some great colleges, but it was just sort of forgotten, a wasteland in the middle of Massachusetts. So they came up and were able to secure some pretty cheap space and they created a nonprofit. It was all for showing arts in an in a non-juried element. You wanted a show, you got a show. You just waited in line. No one checked your portfolio, whatever. You know what I mean? I was in Wooster, work in Boston and we just had that couple summers down here. And then once we made the connection with Ronnie, you know what I mean, it just became coming down every summer.
Burg: That was like, that's all you needed right there. That's amazing, man.
Joey Mars: Yeah, it has been interesting to watch the town because there was... I mean, there is still a little bit of the Bohemia left, but not as much as 20,30 years ago.
Burg: I mean, I kind of wish I was around back then just to experience the town inn the freest.
Joey Mars: Everybody... Yeah, you can go into nostalgia, just keep going back and back. But at this point like you guys know, I mean, you put your car away here, you can have all the fun you want. There are still lots of woods and things and there are still a few old shacks and that sort of thing. Not too many though. The gentrification definitely has happened.
Burg: Oh yes, it is…Full effect.
Joey Mars: I think the, you know, some of the outrageous theater like Ryan Landry, the stuff he does is phenomenal and it's still a pretty cool music scene. Like you guys have evidence of that. And then the art scene, the gallery scene, there is some great stuff that's going on. It's still a little bit corporate, I think of some of the art that is being bought on major levels. P town, I mean, it does provide an art form here. There is art tourism here. But that is one thing that's great about Provincetown out of the all. There are tons of great things. But one of the things is like people come here looking for art. That doesn't happen everywhere. You know what I mean? And even if you are in a city, a lot of art is just geared for a condo or a house or match the couch or that kind of thing. But there is some cutting edge stuff. I think there are a good 10 galleries there who push the limits.
But I think that's controlled by who is buying the art, because like I said, I think a lot of the art that goes down, it's conservative, it's corporate. It's a particular look right now. Realism is in. You see a lot of the architecture paintings that are out there. Plus people, a lot of people aren't here for a long time to sort of get used to a piece of art. There is a lot. It wouldn't support that many galleries if the purchases weren't going down and we've seen a few people in our time that have blown up like Cassandra, her work just blew up. It just blew up, those faces. I mean, people are gobbling that stuff up. They loved it. It was great to see because I hadn't seen anything like that where people were just, you know.
Burg: No way, because of her style.
Joey Mars: She sold three, four, five, six paintings a day. It has got a great art history, whether you talk about Hawthorne and Hinchey, you know, those are... because it's a plein air painting town too. That's what they like. How do you mix colors, painting the outside? Can you match that color? Can you mix that color and lay it down? But there has been different abstract stuff that went on and there was a Warhol era and there were the Indian Space Painters. They are probably the closest thing like Chris Busa's father was part of this crew called the Indian space painters. It was very design oriented, very abstract, very graphics in the 40s.
Burg: In P town?
Joey Mars: Yeah, 40s.
Joey Mars: Yeah. That's the closest that I've seen to like pretty wild sort of abstract surrealism. But even like you guys are connected with in the De Groot house here. You know, Nanno De Groot he was... He did some pretty cool abstract stuff and there has been some major abstract people, but the main part and then the pushback you get is interesting because it's about that Hinchey School going back to Hawthorne.
Burg: I remember that school.
Joey Mars: It's mixing the color. It’s mixing the colors like probably… Someone who was a contemporary of ours who passed away a few years ago, Ray Nolan, he kind of came out of that same school of plein air painting and really all about your eye and how do you make that blue that you looking at out there? How do you mix that? What do you start with? What white are you using to get that? How when you are trying to get those shadows in those dunes? It's not just a dark brown. It's these weird purples and greens. And that's what those cats are coming from. I've studied with some of those. I went to the Vesper George school of art in Boston and a couple of big Provincetown people came out, went to the same school, that same school of painting. So I know it. I understand it.
I think of myself as a pretty good colorist. A lot of, from the stuff I learned coming through there, but I've learned a lot of my color mixing I think almost more digital Photoshop and the sliders. How do you gray something out? How do you move that red into the green? You are like, oh, but that's what those guys are doing with their oil paints. A true traditionalist out of that school does not have a tube of black paint. They make those dark colors by using their opposing colors. You know, that really hits it. There is the stroke of the dark, there is the stroke of the shadow of dark and simplifies it. It was all because they mix that color for three minutes before they whacked it.
Burg: That always blows my mind.
Joey Mars: It's a trick of the eye, but it really comes from color mixing. That's a big part of what this town is, is coming out of that school, Hawthorne into that, you know, the mud heads. That was all about mixing colors, squinting your eyes, finding that color, nailing it and if you can put the right color next to the right color and pull off your painting. So it's really a level of learning to mix paints.
Burg: That is definitely a fact I didn't think about it was the, especially the thing about the dunes you said, when they make the shadow with the dark. I never thought about that because I can't... I like to do art and stuff but I can't... One thing I always have a hard time doing is definitely looking at a color and remaking it or like…
Joey Mars: Yeah, it comes from a lot of practice and a lot of skill and a lot of education and learning, but mainly mostly practicing and really squinting your eyes and thinking. I loved talking with Ray Nolan before he passed away. He would be like, "Joey, I love being poor because I have to be so careful of how I use my paint". You get like chills when you hear shit like that and you know what I mean? That's so different. So it really is, you know, looking at that. I mean, even looking out, there must be five, six different blues in the water out there and how are you going to get them and how white much are you bring it into that and little bit of yellow and oh yeah, a little bit of that cobalt blue and mixed with the ultra-Marine. And that's all from those guys that’s working and the community that they have and talking and talking about art. You've got to take a shot. You guys know that. You've got to push hard, you've got to take a chance and you've got to blow up. And you've got to destroy stuff and not work and fail, up and down and all around. You've got to have help and fun. There is so much to it. You've got to have a little bit of luck and you've got to have people that help promote you and put you out there.
Joey Mars: Support. It's a big part.
Burg: How did you go about getting support in town though? It's tough to get... Like being new and you come out here, isn’t it so competitive at first?
Joey Mars: I've always been a little bit of a DIY guy, you know. So when I started... When I came down here, like when I started traveling with Ronnie from Shop Therapy, I was living in Wooster and he had, where he was housing those employees in different little shacks around town. I was just like, “Man, I'm ready to move out of Wooster. Let me come down here and work with you”. Luckily, my wife was able to transfer her work down to the Cape and so we took the shot in maybe like 97 and came down here. And then a couple of the buildings that Ronnie rented, one of them had this dusty old basement. There was nothing going on in it so I asked him if I could just do something down there. He is like, yeah, go for it. He didn't charge me any rent and just sort of let me put my stuff out there and do it.
And then I've tried that in a couple of different places in town. So then once you are doing it for a while and then a lot of times it comes down to friends dragging in somewhere. Like, “Oh, you should come show here. I show here, they would love you”. So that takes it, because I'm not good at taking the portfolio around. I'm not a doorknocker, you know what I mean? I'm not, "Here I am. Look at my stuff". I'm too scared of that whole process. So I'm more like, I'll just do it. I'll be over here if you guys need me, call me.
Burg: Have you ever thought about doing an animation or illustrations?
Joey Mars: Sure. Through the years we've done a little bit here and there, but it has never quite played out. I've only starting now to sort of write the stories that can go with them. Like, I've never sort of had the... People go, "What's that character?" That's the rabbit? I don't know. He doesn't have a name. But I've done a little bit here and there, but never as much as I wanted to. But I'm working on some new stories now that maybe could happen. And once again, that's you didn't find the right crew, you know what I mean? You didn't find the people that were like, all right, I'll take it. I'll chop it up. A friend of mine, Michael has chopped some stuff up for me and put them and moved some vehicles around and put some sounds on things. We did a little Christmas thing and it's out there on the internet. You can find it a few years back. My daughters singing and we did a little Merry Christmas thing, this elf with a puppet. So little things, but never to the level where I would love to see it. Maybe that can happen in the next few years or whatever. Especially with the technology, you start chopping this... vPretty easy, you know. But I think some of that is almost a little too much for me by myself. I would need like, I've just got to run into the right crew of people that can do the sound, because it's very time consuming when you go to start to do this stuff and get the layers and layer in the sound. You guys know. You make videos.
Burg: How has that worked though for you over the years though? When did you start using Photoshop for your art?
Joey Mars: Well earlier, I started doing Photoshop for production of going from like my art to get to silkscreen. Photoshop was a good way, because you work with layers, you could create your colors. So that was my introduction to Photoshop and it was really just edit, fill. I did... I used like probably 1 million of what Photoshop could do. I did it for years, just used edit, fill, erase, draw. I used like four tools and then through the years you get, you know, oh let me try and see what that one does and what that one does. And then I use a lot of this stuff for not how it's supposed to be used, but it ends up working for me. Probably a lot of people use these programs and you find a little version of the stuff that can work. Oh, what is that distortion?
Burg: How you can utilize it.
Joey Mars: So it's all that, going back to the early rock and roll, Phil Spector some of that distorting that stuff, getting that feedback. I'm doing the same thing with colors and chopping stuff up and just pushing, pushing things to the levels. I do a lot of inverting color where also you just got the opposite of what you had. The computer is such an amazing tool. I love paper. I still do more work that's on paper and pens and markers and that sort of thing. But that computer that just lets you do things is just...
Burg: So here we've got this famous Joey tee-shirt.
Joey Mars: Yeah this was a design I did probably 93, maybe. Yeah, it was right at the start of this all over print technology where you could print on the sleeves like that. So they would load the shirt on the platen, on a regular screen platen that everybody would know of and hydraulically these wings would come out and fill the sleeves and then an oversize screen would come down. And so Liquid Blue, it just started to work with this stuff. Liquid Blue was a printer I worked with and they ended up licensing my work. They did a lot of work with the dead and they are doing a lot of rock and roll stuff. Paul, the owner of the company had grown up in the screen printing family. His father was a billboard printer. So this guy was like, he was the state of technology at the time and he would, because all the companies were pitching at him and he loved the technology. So I had this sort of shape of a shirt and I just started throwing these drawings together, trying to make it work within this level.
That's kind of what came out at the time. At the time it was a state of the art. It was the first time probably in, on an allover shirt that a water color process of screen printing. So when this first thing was printed it was so super soft and they eventually had some problems with it because it was too ahead of its time a little bit like on the sleeve seams. So now when they print they do a lot more graphically. This got re-released just last year, so they print a lot more graphically, but it was just... It was cutting edge. I think it was just a little ahead of its time. It did okay when it was first released. It was kind of like critically acclaimed and people liked it, but you had to be pretty bold to wear it. I mean, you had to be a real...
Burg: But like the characters though, I mean...
Joey Mars: Well, in the back like you've got that three headed thing. I had been drawing that for a while. It's sort of like the consciousness within nature and it really was something I played with, was the Fates. You've got the past, present and future. In Greek mythology, the Fates all shared one eyeball and they reported to the Zeus. So you can see it now, this is like a technologically advanced version. He has got like you can see the satellites on it and he has got all antennas. I was just really into... It's a concept of communicating with nature and nature is communicating with us and information exchange. And then different versions like the cat that's all, you know... I was always into evolution and stuff. What if evolution took a couple of different turns?
Burg: That's exactly what I see.
Joey Mars: Different body parts in different places.
Burg: I always think about that. Like evolution is crazy to me just simply because of how slow it is, you know, like...
Joey Mars: Yeah, over the course a time, weird things. And then I'm definitely a surrealist with a lot of my work, so I like bending things around and just making things a little crazy. And we've got the rabbits just chilling. He looks a little baked and you've got the purple dragon with the raised consciousness coming out of the top of his head and it was just... Those little black things standing on the skull, those are, I call those things rock mites.
Burg: Rock mites?
Joey Mars: Yeah. They like attach by the antenna and they roll, sort of like rock mites roll blast around and the screaming skulls are always flying around and it would just... It came together. And then the trick is how you balance the colors to make it work.
Burg: I can see everything though.
Joey Mars: It was just a super fun shirt that got out there and was popular and then...
Burg: It catches your eye for sure.
Joey Mars: The past few years, it has crossed over into vintage world and it has gained a new life. It has gained a new life.
Burg: Is this the one Travis had?
Burg: Yeah. Yeah. Travis Scott got photographed wearing a very faded version, just torn in the right spots. That thing must be so soft and so comfortable to wear. Yeah, he wears... And then a Sheck Wes picked up... I had this kid with me...
Burg: Sheck Wes.
Joey Mars: Cut and sow pieces. This kid, Asthma Attack is his Instagram name, he did a long sleeve version, so he took two [inaudible 26:05], he cut them apart and he made long sleeves with all the graphics on them. He has got like rabbits and cats coming down the sleeve and he was out… He is part of that whole San Diego crew, big vintage scene in San Diego. So he was doing some sort of fair and Sheck Wes's crew saw it and came to this kid's house and picked it up. You know, they showed up with like the million dollar vehicles, flashing the shirt. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me.
Burg: I'm telling you.
Joey Mars: How does that happen to some old hippie
Burg: It's not... But the thing is like... I think it's not even that. It's like people don't see it as that. It's like you were saying with the message that the message you are portraying is getting across.
Joey Mars: Yeah, I think so. I think these were... Yeah, I think it's pretty universal. And these kids, I went back. I really looked at a lot of stuff they are doing that. They like the psychedelics. They are having fun with it. Everybody is moshing at their show.
Burg: Yeah, exactly.
Joey Mars: It's the same old thing. It's what we've been doing. So it was kind of cool to see. It was almost like getting the stamp from the next generation coming up. It's cool.
Burg: That's exactly who you want the stamp from.
Joey Mars: Yeah. They are all fashion guys and they are walking the Paris runways and you are starting to see they are crossing over with some of the graffiti guys from the 80s and 90s whether it's Futura. I think Sheck was wearing some Futura on a Paris runway this year. Like a hand painted spray painted white suit.
Burg: Yeah, denim and stuff.
Joey Mars: So that's just great to see that that's going on. So I've been starting to do some more hand painted stuff because that's kind of how I started with the shirts, was doing hand painted stuff with airbrush, these beautiful sky dyes and stuff. I was able to take what I was doing and run with it. And then what was cool was that Liquid Blue at the time was marketing the Dead, Zeppelin, Who, Frank Zappa, all these big rock stars.
Burg: Big rock names, huge.
Joey Mars: And all of a sudden Joey Mars is thrown into that mix and it just was fantastic because it just elevated it. Plus, Liquid Blue was so good at what they did. It just...
Burg: Took off.
Joey Mars: It's like working with a great producer. How they can just take it to another level. You bring everything you got. You bring your A game, they bring their A game and it comes out really good. It got out there. It got all around the world. Throw back to Ronnie. Ronnie is the guy that introduced me to these people.
Joey Mars: Yeah. Ronnie opened up a lot of doors. He has not only just financed a lot of our projects for me, but he has introduced me to a lot of people because he bought these tee-shirts from these people since day one. They come down here with their bags of stuff and then 10 years later and they got their own operation going. So Ronnie would take me around at these trade shows, these boutique shows like in New York City at the Javits center. Here is my friend Joey. There is his art. Do you guys use anything like that? I made a bunch of good connections that way.
Joey Mars: Yeah. Big shout out to Ronnie, always, always pushing the boundaries on so many different levels. And he is great for the arts. I mean, look at his yard. The sculptures out there are amazing.
Burg: Yeah. He knows what he is doing. He definitely knows what he is doing.
Joey Mars: He likes the... He knows that the energy is good. He surrounds himself with that good energy and he just... He believes it. It's not just... It's something he really believes in. He has been doing it for 40, 50 years.
Burg: Low key trash podcast. The last time we might have seen you was maybe at Silas's mixed tape release party. That was like, that was a great time.
Joey Mars: That was, definitely.
Burg: We went to the Squealing Pig after, had a couple of beers.
Joey Mars: That's it. That’s it. Yeah. That's a good place.
Burg: Yeah. We appreciate having you on.
Joey Mars: Well, thank you.
Burg: Thank you for giving us your time.
Joey Mars: Be patient, be patient and work your craft and learn. It's just practice. It's like anything. You want to learn how to play golf; you've got to play golf all the time. You want to learn how to draw; you've got to draw all the time. You've got to paint all the time because that's how you learn. You learn from your mistakes or projects. A lot of times if it's a commercial project, it takes me two weeks to throw out what isn't going to work before you find what does work. If you are into what's going on in the internet and stuff, learn Photoshop either from [inaudible 30:45] and then go out and earn a little CSS, because everything is made for the mobile phone now. So that's like CSS is like the code that's working the phone. These classes around here you can get them at 4Cs, probably even Truro. Take a little class here and there and just advance it and you can just take... Go at it slow.
And then if you like painting and you want to be in the galleries, enter group shows, look back in these art magazines, there is submissions to everything. There are group shows all over. It may take you $10 for an admission fee, but get yourself in some shows because those are things you can then list on a resume when you eventually try to get into a group show to get three pieces in and then just take it. Don't think you are going to be like an art star right out of the bucket. And take it and take advice and learn to take some criticism and know when maybe the criticism is just mean-spirited or whether there is some real education there, because there are some real elements to stuff. There are some people that really know what they are talking about. There are people that don't. But patience and just pick and choose or if you are jumping in and getting your feet in the fire thing, it all depends on what you want to do, but you can do it slowly and you can pick and choose and you want to just do your own thing. You constantly want to do your own thing, then that's what you do.
But the most important thing is to do it, you know what I mean? You hear that all the time, but that really is it. I play Frisbee golf, disc golf. I'm in my 12th year now and I'm still learning all the time with that sport and anything like that, even with art, the Photoshop, the technical end of stuff, or even with painting. You are still learning all the time how to mix colors and do things. You've got to be patient, you've got to put the time in and if you really like it... And you've got to be a little bold and you've got to go out there and put yourself out there. At some points, maybe you've got to put it out there for free or whatever in the beginning. There are so many different ways to go about it. Just explore different things and keep your mind open and be willing to learn.